Tamil and Australian aboriginal languages

I sat and watched Ten Canoes the other day. The language in it sounded like Tamil. Which was a surprise. Just like years ago I realised that Japanese and Tamil words were interchangeable in a sentence. So I went looking for research where others may have found this too. I came across this:

Perhaps most similar to Australian languages are the Dravidian languages of southern India. Tamil, for example, has five places of articulation in a single series of stops, paralleled by a series of nasals, and no fricatives (thus approaching the Australian proportion of sonorants to obstruents of 70% to 30%). Approaching the question from the opposite direction: according to the latest WHO data on the prevalence of chronic otitis media (Acuin 2004:14ff), Aboriginal Australians have the highest prevalence in the world – 10-54%, according to Coates & al (2002), up to 36% with perforations of the eardrum. They are followed – at some distance – by the Tamil of southern India (7.8%, down from previous estimates of 16-34%), … (from http://www.flinders.edu.au/speechpath/Manly%20final.pdf)

Then I started to look at other linking the tamil and the Aboriginal. And here I encountered a lot of material. I big proportio of this has to be discounted as it is typically in the vein of the Indian or Tamil suprematist. Quickly – that vein is one that claims that Tamil is the original language – and the class of languages called Dravidian ( an unfortunate appellation?) is huge and spread all over the world. Some claim the flaw in this na,ing has given rise to the feeling that Tamil ( as dravidian) is the original language. Still now we can start to read about DNA evidence. See this:

Dr Rao and his colleagues sequenced the mitochondrial genomes of 966 people from traditional tribes in India. They reported several of the Indian people studied had two regions of their mitochondrial DNA that were identical to those found in modern day Australian Aboriginal people. (http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/2011921/1/)

Also – http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/9/173/abstract/

Then there is the Human Genome Project and here is what that has to say:

During his own journey in pursuit of the Y chromosome story in the late 1990s, Wells took blood samples from males of Dravidian ancestry in southern India. The Dravidians were among India’s earliest colonists; they now live among the descendants of a later wave of Sanskrit speakers — like Latin and ancient Greek, Sanskrit is an a branch of the Indo-European ‘mother tongue’, more closely related to modern English and French than to Dravidian.

Wells was looking for a genetic marker called M130, the most ancient, non-African, Y-chromosome marker. It is rare in Dravidians, but quite common in Australian Aboriginal males — and, intriguingly, in the Na Dene peoples of the Pacific north-west of North America.

The Na Dene peoples are descended from a second, later wave of immigrants into North America, who were ultimately of Sino-Tibetan stock — M130 is both the oldest non-African Y-chromosome marker, and the most travelled.

Wells’ suspicion that M130 might have survived, at very low frequency, in southern coastal regions of India, was proven correct

The first African emigres left a durable calling card on the coastal migratory route between Africa and Australia.

(http://www.lifescientist.com.au/article/131860/dr_wells_genetic_crusade)

Which is of course mystifying and a bit thrilling. Do I carry M130 I wonder. If yes what would that mean to me? Or should I just learn the (which) language?

145 Comments

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145 responses to “Tamil and Australian aboriginal languages

  1. J Strain

    I reaad your brief article about language similarities between Tamil (Dravidian) and Australian Aborigines. I am a little puzzled because our Aborigines spoke about 300 languages but you have not identified which you are comparing with Tamil.

    • susan cherian

      before the tamils (dravidians) arrived in india 9000 yrs ago ,there were australian aborigines and people from africa ..already residing throughout india
      .the dravidians came from mesopotamia(sumeria) and elam and they established the mergarh civilisation.(mohenjo daro and harappa)
      further some historians have concluded that the dravidians explored australia and new zealand ,like colubus, but a thousand years ago.
      both of these events explain the existence of common words etc..

      • dravidians are L dna
        info below is from wikipedia!
        L was found in( 51% of Syrians from Al-Raqqah), a northern Syrian city in which its previous inhabitants have been wiped out by the Mongols by and repopulated in recent times by localBedouin populations and Chechen war refugees.[4] In a small sample of Israeli Druze haplogroup L was found in 7 out of 20 (35%). However, studies done on bigger samples showed that L-M20 averages 5% in Israeli Druze,[5] 8% in Lebanese Druze,[6] and it was not found in a sample of 59Syrian Druze. Haplogroup L has been found in 2.0% (1/50)[7] to 5.25% (48/914)[8] of Lebanese. wikipedia
        L y dna
        Syria 51.0% (33/65) of Syrians in Al-Raqqah,( 31.0% of Eastern Syrians) Mirvat El-Sibai et al. 2009[4] Iran 3.4% L1-M76 (4/117) and 2.6% L2-M317 (3/117)
        for a total of 6.0% (7/117) haplogroup L in southern Iran
        3.0% (1/33) L3-M357 in northern Iran Regueiro et al. 2006(( Turkey 57% in Afshar village,)) 12% (10/83) in Black Sea Region, 4.2% (1/523 L-M349 and 21/523 L-M11(xM27, M349)) Cinnioğlu et al. 2004, Gokcumen (2008)

        The subclades of Haplogroup L with their defining mutation(s), according to the 2011 ISOGG tree:

        L (M11, M20, M22, M61/Page43, M185)
        L* Found only in Europe from Ireland to Eastern Europe[26]
        L1 (M295) Found from Western Europe to South Asia [27]
        L1*
        L1a (M27, M76, P329) Found frequently in Indians, Sri Lankans, andBalochs, with a moderate distribution in other populations of Pakistan, southern Iran, and Arabia but also in European populations
        L1b (M317) Found at low frequency in Central Asia, Southwest Asia, and Central Europe
        L1b*
        L1b1 (M349) Principally found in Europe
        L1b2 (M274)
        L1c (M357) Found frequently among Burushos, Kalashas, Chechensand Pashtuns, with a moderate distribution among other populations inPakistan, Georgia, northern Iran, India, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia
        L1c*
        L1c1 (PK3) Found frequently among Kalash
        Mari (modern Tell Hariri, Syria) was an ancient( Sumerian and Amorite city), located 11 kilometers north-west of the modern town of Abu Kamal on the western bank of Euphrates river, some 120 km southeast of Deir ez-Zor, Syria. It is thought to have been inhabited since the 5th millennium BC, although it flourished with series of superimposed palaces that spans a thousand years, from 2900 BC until 1759 BC, when it was sacked by Hammurabi.[1]

        Abu Kamal (Arabic: أبو كمال‎, Turkish: Ebu Kemal or Kışla) is a city in eastern Syria on theEuphrates River near the border with Iraq. The Euphrates divides Abu Kamal into two areas: Shamiyya (belonging to the Levant) and Jazira (belonging to Mesopotamia) Al-Jazira, a plains region consisting of northeastern Syria and northwestern Iraq, quite distinct from the Syrian Desertand lower-lying central Mesopotamia. Abu Kamal is an economically prosperous farming region with cattle-breeding, cereals, and cotton crops. It is also home to the historical site Dura-Europos and the ancient kingdom of Mari.

      • Thamilan

        Hi in my point of view dravidians didn’t immigrate from sumerian civilization. Dravidians are unique civilization. their is a underwater civilization in the indian ocean called kumari kandam. the researchers have carbon dated some of the objects they found underwater and it is old more than 35000 years. apart from that kumari kandam is a continent which connects africa and australia to india. there are more than 40 countries existed in that continent (from tamil literature). in my view aborigines are part of dravidian clan which seperated 1000’s of years ago after the ice age. some times i wonder how similar aborigines are to dravidans..they look alike..

      • yes,aboriginals separated from our indigenous people..thousands of years ago..well before the Dravidians arrived in India…

        both the indigenous groups did not have their own writing systems..
        Higher caste Tamils…Sindhis etc have no resemblance to the aBoriginal..
        (hema Malini etc look like pure Dravidians)..

        I dont think that any race is superior….we are all equal.
        But to discredit the Dravidians of their achievements in the Mergargh Civilization is perhaps distorted….

      • Anand

        Please note India is much older than Australia in terms of migration out of africa
        NOW see the original journey of humans on earth

        http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

        regards

      • Harald Fors

        Dear Susan!
        Could You please give me some words which are common both to Au. Aborigines and ancient Weddah of Sri Lanka.
        Yours sincerely
        Harald

    • Jyoti

      J Strain, I visited Uluru a few years ago and noticed, in a tourism book handed out there, a list of local words. Some of the words I found to be common with Tamil: ‘Ng’ meaning ‘our/my’ pronounced in Tamil as ‘eng’ ending with a stress on the ‘g’. ‘Uru’ meaning home village/town, ‘raja’ meaning leader.. All with similar meanings in Tamil. There were a few others which I forget now..

      • Tamils or Dravidians …were great mariners in ancient times…history has recorded that they arrived in Australia and New Zealand as explorers…would be safe to assume that they introduced some words…
        Ur in Iraq also means home …
        Tamil is also the most refined ancient language..

        Programmes coming out of UK and India choose to ignore the achievements of the Dravidians..

    • Anish

      Here is an example….. The Honey ants are known as “Yerrampe or Agkwarle Yerrampe” in Arrernte ( spoken in and around Alice Springs in the Northern Territory, Australia) is very very close to Erumbu (Tamil), Erumbu,Urumbu (Malayalam) and Iruve, Irumbe (Kannada), all meaning “the ant”.

      • Chinna Thumbi

        Aiyya what da, this kannadi Iruve is not like ours only, chee they are different in all aspects. Tamil and Malayalam only same and correct. Kannada Iruve is new word and their real was chiti or something for ant in their old language. I have read it

      • The name of the town of Wagga Wagga in New South Wales comes from the Wiradjuri word Wagga meaning crow, and to create the plural, the Wiradjuri repeat the word. Thus the name translates as “the place of many crows”. The dravidian word for crow is “Kakka”. Whether “Wagga” and “Kakka” are related can only be verified by a linguistic expert..

      • Newton Rajkumar

        Tamil word for crow is kaagam. Phonetically similar sounding indeed!

    • Harald Fors

      Arrernte or Arrunta languages in Alice Springs area could be related to
      ancient languages in SE India and Sri Lanca.!

  2. kedarnath

    good day,

    congratulations to author for the excellent article and jstrain’s comment and puzzlement. I have been waiting for this articulation for a number of years.

    1) In order not to reach dead ends to inquiry I file away only data / facts. And not confusing conclusions from whoever they are. caveat emptor is the dictat.

    One of these days I ought to compile statistics on emotion indices of “scientists” for the question “so what? and oh yeah? Have you read Russellian axiomless mathematics.” at the end of a presentation.

    2. Comparing mangoes with kangaroos and kookaburras leads to dead ends and strange theories. Comparing the elements of these sure is biochemistry. That needs to be done when comparing highly diverged populations.

    3. arming one’s self with [pANiNiya dhAtupATha], Monier Williams Sanskrit English and any Australian Aboriginal dictionary arranged in the Bharath India way [a, A, i, I u, U, Ru, RU, ~Lu, LU, e E ai o O au aM aH] [ka varga] – [ca varga] [Ta varga] [ta varga] [pa pha ba bha va] [ma, ya ra la] [sha Sha sa] [ha] The meaning of Australian Aboriginal words can be understood by anybody.

    Many of the words have been used in the veda – cannot be more so called Aryan than that.

    The same above tools can be used to obtain statistically significant concordance with Maya in the South and Meso America.

    http://www.scribd.com/smartxpark5849

    There appears to be a relook always on theories and migrations. Are migrations of people the only explanations – Could not migration of land masses left ecological niches.

    regards

  3. Kumar

    Mr.kedarnath is sceptical about the finding of the author.The authour has clearly stated the relationship between the Sotuh Indian Tamil (isolated) population and the Australian aboriginals by means of scientific evidence from M130 mitocondrial DNA which cannot be challenged by any unaided theories and speculations. The linguistics correlation strongly supports his scientific evidence.

    • Kenny

      You m***** f****rs….. stop you senseless pondering about the nonconnecting. Your aboriginals are limited to Africa and Sri Lanka…….. and to the suffering India

  4. Good day,

    Dr Rao and his colleagues sequenced the mitochondrial genomes of 966 people from traditional tribes in India. They reported

    [ several ]

    of the Indian people studied had two regions of their mitochondrial DNA that were identical to those found in modern day Australian Aboriginal people.

    What on earth does this “unscientific [several] mean?

    What ratio of the sample is it to the population – How were the samples obtained – legal or illegal means? Was it “informed consent” of the tribals – Australian and Indian laws do require ethical practices.

    Any suspect practice by the researchers leads skeptism at the least. And if I get furious that instead of looking for measures to grant them rights they are being used as guinea pigs for “distorted” reasons such as Aryan and race reasons – in 2011 reeling still under recession and sky rocketing prices will have our Raos looking for jobs.

    • wow..you need to remember there were two or three indigenous races in India before the Dravidians arrived from Mesopotamia..and established civilizations in India as old as Egypt bu bigger…
      wow..this Indian obsession of putting yourselves down..
      the Aryans came from Turkey at a time when Turkey was very backward ..they brought with them a rough language..which the Dravidians developed..
      Max Mueller has distorted your understanding..he got a way with untruths..and Dravidians are spread throughout India,Pakistan and Afghanistan..and further up in Iraq..
      Tragic that Indians are preferring to uphold Max..and not history..
      spineless?

      • ezhil

        I see your clear about hema malini being dravidian. I See your wrong in saying dravidians as summerians, they are not. Tamils, Todays SC/ST’s in india are the natives who created tamil cutlture in india and around the world. After see took the tamils land they lost most of their wealth and harmonious life. Dravidians and aryans are almost same. Dravidians is ssanskrit name for tamls. So sanskrit mixed with tamil is literally called dravidians. Tamils never call themselves dravidians. Summerians were ancestors of tamilians. Infact they also coexisted because on made the other civilization possible . like australia and uk. The north indians were happy calling themselves indo aryans all along now you say they are also dravidiaans. I dont think they will have a problem because to me it looks like opputunitstic idea to call any name you want and dont belong to anything. such people are called nomads. and nomadic race is not tamil race. they are foregners who cant mingle with any one and live peacfully. Tamil is straight opposite they encourage other poeple to come live with them understand them , trade with them. one of the most exquisitely civilized people on planet earth, tamils are down to earth and dont like marketing themselves all the time they are very polite and ready to help people . money is part of life and earth is thier life. anything against mother nature is one thing tamils dont like or can tolerate.

      • “Summerians were ancestors of Tamilians. Infact they also coexisted because one made the other civilization possible.” ____[ RE: The Chaldean 'J' DNA stretches across the Chaldees from Turkey into Indo-China. India's Devas with their naga(Serpent) beliefs along with predominant genetics, are as the Yezidi's Maya, Hopi, Tamil Burgher including the so called Yezidi Kurds and many (mix 'R1b' DNA) Portuguese)Sephar.im originally from 'J' DNA of Sippar, Sumer / Chaldeans. The Tamil Burgher are as the Sumerian(Chaldean) Samaritans of Orthodox jewish Kabbalaist Burghers ('J' DNA; per Israel government -Cohen genetics) that has mixed caucasian races ( Adamic Rh pos blood types) 'R1a' DNA and from the most ancient 'R' pre 200,000 yr (Rh pos blood types) and begot the new 'R1b' DNA; per Cultural Anthropology, DNA Charts, and history. ] [ They (all the above mentioned)were the builders/Architect of all the megalithic Temples for their (Astrological) religions around the World.] ______________________________________________________________________ The Sumerians culture can be seen with the Maya 25,000 yr (or 35,000 yr) and Devas (laterTamil) 7,000 yr in India. But this culture and trade merchants have been traced to have also came from the 35,000yr Basque’s Atlan maritime settlements in northwestern France. Also Americas’ Bolivia’s archaeological findings of a vase having the writings saying Cronus, King of Atlan. Archaeologists have shown the At’lan Culture 14,000 -8,000 yr in the same lands as the (predominantly ‘R1b’) Basque’s Atlantiques in Britannia {as Aquilonians in Britain} {Picts unmixed genetics ‘J’ DNA}. __________________________________________________________________ I conclude that the Aurignacian Culture of a World Trade Empire had continued to settle major trade civilizations starting around 35,000 BC in the (11,000 yr) Americas per DNA studies, (35,000 yr) northwestern France, down to Samara Culture/Sumer (6th millennium BC). The (7,000 yr) Devas of India and Sri Lanka into China (as the naga Serpent ruling class of people).

  5. arun

    yes, many of them aboriginal peoples look are similar to tamil people that i identify by seeing their photos in the wikipedia.

    • husayn

      liar aborigine have c ydna dravidians have L c is found in low frequency in india

      • “Peking Man” has come to epitomize Homo-Erectus as a distinct human species. By Dr. Davidson Black and Dr. Franz Weidenreich: Ngandong, Indonesia, suggested Homo-Erectus survived as late as 53,000 to 27,000 years ago!” [ RE: – – and the Caucasian Neanderthal types had mixed races with some with each Ice Age that brought these Neanderthal Arian type into southern Asia – Indo China areas. In India’s ancient history tells that the Arians can date over 10,000 years ago. This was predominant in Mongolia that stretched into Europe, with the Arian and central eastern “Peking Man” mongoloid of Asia and with western European ‘H’ Arian-‘R1a’ Adamic mix with Grey’s/Celt’s (‘R1b’ A) and (‘J’ DNA) .

  6. Subash Chandra Bowse

    I too was looking for this connection between the Tamils and the Australian Aborigines.
    The physical looks and skin complexion of the aborigines bear many similarities. I also agree that there are some similar customs between the Tamils and Aborigines. For Example Aborigines apply white ash on their bodies similar to what the Tamils do.
    I heard there is a mountainous region in the middle parts of Australia (which is a popular tourist destination), called ‘Uluru’. This is very similar to the tamil word Ul oor- meaning internal village.
    My view is that the Dravidian race would have got isolated in Australian main land when the united land (united with the Indian Sub continent) got separated from the mainland thousands of years ago.
    I am very eager to listen to any research done in this field!

    • susan cherian

      the australoids and people from africa are the original inhabitants of india..the tamils or dravidians cam from mesopotamia 9000 yrs ago.they established mohenjo daro etc…and some or most have moved to the south of india..

      • Tamil aazhi

        A clarity i would like to provide here. A barberic group of people with european, turkish and russian blood enters india ruled by tamils. The language they distorted from prakriti became sanskrit which is a indo european languae. Prakriti was a distorted verstion of Tamil. Prakriti is a dead language. Sanksrit is dead but live in temples alone from political purpose. These barbarians called themselves superior because they were distructive in nature and enforced that all in indian that is tamils call them Aryans which means superior ones. They claim sanskrit is older than tamil which is blatant misunderstanding and in some cases utter lie. As we know sanskrit is from prakriti. Sama kritham in tamil means equal script. so which language is it compared to ? no not tamil its prakriti. a distorted tamil language. Now next clarity is in sanskrit tamil is called dravidian. So tamil is the language called dravidian in sanskrit. Now politically there is a slight insight to be seen. When the aryans attrocities increase and they self proclaimed them selves the best in india which i dont want to comment about.Before independence from english they succeeded mixing sanskrit with tamil in north of tamil nadu aka TN and it became telugu. They mixed north west part of TN with sanskrit and that is called kannada. West part mixed with sanskrit is called malayalam.and south part of TN mixed with sanskrit, prakrit + a dialect of prakrit pali and tamil is called Sinhalese. and all these place were called Andra Pradesh, Karnataka, kerala(cherala name after a king) and sri lanka respectively. There are two division of people in all the states supporters of tamils and non supporters who are brahminical groups, who pose as tamil but are against tamil no matter what. They work from within to destroy tamils their only aim in life dont know why though? They even live in tamil nadu and make life miserable for real tamils but these people act like tamils. These outsiders bcos they support brahmanical ideology of crushing tamils call themselves dravidians a word for tamils in sanskrit. While real tamils will be proud being called tamils because they up against vile enemies living with them. in their own country in their own state. The people who ruled the world once mimimized to a constinent then to a country and then to a state and now jailed in their own state tamil nadu. Sinai in tamil is womb of a women, if you see the sinai peninsular it will look like womb of a women. Later taken over by greeks and mesodonians and later by middle east arabs. Tamils did exist around the globe in many places they were butchered for want of power by others. Now people like kedarnath even talk about discreting the remaining proof as well though truth will come oout one day. Though this may seem little farfetched . I am have done my research for years to gether in this field. I have already seen a research paper by a american women i forgot her name she has already found that australians have a blood line which is in all ways possible to be connected with south indian tamils the real tamils, mostly sc/st’s who are not given importance not only in tamil nadu but also in entire india, though things are changing . Still its not enought to be care free. Thanks for reading this. A proud Tamil. Yathum oore yavarum kelir anbe engal ulagathathuvam. All man born in this world is my blood relation it our only policy. Pura nanooru a 300 A.D year old tamil literature. this was written during the decline of tamil kings, so tamils will know who they are. If you want proof ? learn tamil proof is embedded in the language.

      • It is definitely a distortion….permitted by us Indians..to refer to sanskrit as an Indo European Language when the Dravidian languages are much older..and refined..sanskrit is definitely a dravidian language…so scary that the Europeans have gotten away with calling it Indo European..
        there would be dravidian influence in Europe..dravidians were excellent mariners in ancient times..this fact carefully hidden by the west with our full hearted permission…

        OUr indigenous people still have no written script…..we have two races of indigenous people..

        our Indian script did originate with the arrival of the Dravidians 9000 years ago..however slight similarities can still be seen…
        Dravidians and aryans are spread throughout India ..just like our indigenous are…

      • Kadir Vel

        In reply to Mr. Tamil aazhi.

        Dude. I’m a tamilian born in a (so called) Brahmin family. But I don’t believe in Caste or Varna system. I consider all the living things in this earth are same. Simply you don’t like Brahmins don’t blame them all. Most of us are ignorant when it comes to Tamil research. So we can’t blame any one. I also used to think like a comman man before few years. Due to my self interest in Tamil I have little info about Tamil. I’ll be doing it until my last breath. Don’t you know that U. V. Swaminatha Iyer is called as the Tamil thaha. Read about him.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U._V._Swaminatha_Iyer

        My Grandfather, Athai, my mother and my brother have dark complexion. But that is the true color and white skin is just lac of melanin. Me and my father are brown color. Which is said to be Indian color now. There is nothing like India as such. Everything is Tamil Agam. Some bramins do use Sanskrit words but we are the ones who pronounce our great tamil language clearly For example: We say Aam for house which is nothing but Agam. How can we responsible for the varna system created by the Kings. Today there is no caste as such. everyone is following everything. I no longer consider myself to be superior and I am not responsible for what others think and do. I’m from Tiruneveli and our people correct tamil when compared to ppl in Chennai or other region. We say Kooda Kuraiya instead of Jaasti and Kammi, which are marathi words Jaaztha and Kamthi. This is because Marathas captured Northern parts of TN and so they are influenced by those language. We say “Verasala Vaala” means “Viraivaga Varavum”. I don’t know from which region you are. But most of the dist ppl say ” Seekram vaa”. “Sheegra” is a sanskrit word and they are using it. Chennai ppl are destroying our great language. What are you going to do about that. My family and friends laugh at me and also warn me saying what are you gonna get by speaking tamil properly. I tell them that we are in a situation where in we have to learn Tirukural by reading the Thelivorai. Then just think how Tamil would have been 10,0000 years ago. My eyes are with tears. We are loosing a great language which originated along with humans. We were the first to tell this world about Kollamai and Pulaal unnamai (non-killing and abstain from flesh eating). But today every where animals are being slaughtered in our great country itself, What are we gonna do about it. Every one is eating non-today. Corporate are making us eat them. Lots of information about Tamil and Kumari Kandam have been destroyed. Instead of blaming others just think how to save Tamil language. Read Tirukural and tell the goodness to ppl. We have lost Agathiyam and all other great literature. Try find those facts my friend. And don’t worry, Tamil has survived all this way and will survive until last Tamilian is alive.

        Tamil Valarpom Uyir Valarpom !

      • I have come to appreciate the knowledge behind your comment. I am also inclined to think in the way you infer from inputs from different scientific traditions in spite of bottlenecks based on emotions,politics etc.,

  7. John Kernot

    I am not a scientist or a linguist. however I have lived with Australian Aborigines for 29 yrs.concurrently 16 yrs ago I married a Fijian Indian and have been involved with Indians for the past 16 yrs.
    Indians and Aborigines are not similer.They are the same people ,seperated by maybe 10s of 1000s of yrs but their basic cultural psychology is exactly the same in too many ways to go into here.It seems they did originate from the Dravidian people in some ancient time. Research needs to be concentrated on this ancient Aboriginal /Indian common anscestory,JK

    • Muthukumar R

      The idea that Dravidians (Tamils, more specifically) and the Australian aborigines are similar (or one and the same) fascinates me!
      I am a Tamil living in Madurai, India. My b-i-l who lives in Australia once jocularly said that the aborigines very much look like our ‘uncles’ and ‘aunts’.
      May be JK could share with interested people like me photos and the language audio recordings of the aborigines.
      Why not NagtGeo do a TV program on this?

      • yes the indigenous people of india are vaguely similar to the mixed aboriginal…so you are not referring to the pure dravidians who arrived from mesopotamia..but you are referring to people who were in india before the sophisticated dravidians arrived from mesopotamia..

      • nat geo..will then have to admit that the dravidians established civilizations as old as Egypt ..and that might be inconvenient…
        Indians typically dont like their country to be seen as an ancient land,,they prefer..to say they are aboriginals with no ancient civilizations to their credit..so you will have to really camoaign for this one..indians prefer to just say that dravidians are aboriginals..so htat the amazing amazing dravidian culture can be hidden..GO FIGURE!!!

    • John…you are mixing up the indigenous people of India with the Dravidians..it is a good way i suppose to keep such an amazing history…contracted into ordinariness..

      • indigenous people date back a million years ago! The Tamil (Burghers) date with the Devas with their 7,000 BC civilizations in India that is of the Sumerian Empire, in the 5th millennium BC, of Indus River Valley industrial cities. Same area that the Hopi Indians came from. Dravidian language from this land can be seen crossing through the Sumerian Empire, of the Chaldean and Cimmerian lands that the Arians had later conquered. It also was called “Mede Empire”, “Land of Cush”, Ottoman Empire, and Baluchistan, all of the Arian and Adamic people predominantly “R1a” DNA that can be seen in Europe. It seems as that the Dravidian language was of the Devas/Tamil/Sumerian-Chaldean but a mix with the Arian language since the Arians were the powers in these lands but were managed(controlled) by the Devas-Yezidi/Chaldeans of the Sumerian Empire. See INDIA’S Aryan=IsaRaYa / Jesus.Sun.god fighting the Devas of the Naga/Serpent religion.

    • ezhil, May 15, 2013 at 2:45 pm [RE: has the answer. The Tamil is as the Devas, the Chaldean Yezidi Kurds-Maya and the later Hopi that passed through Sri Lanka to Australia and across to Central America. But the Aborigines are very similar to the pre 50,000 yr Mongo man (had no Black African ‘L’ DNA and is now extinct) of Australia and similar to the Polynesians found in all the Pacific islands from the coast lines of eastern Asia to the Americas.

      husayn, February 11, 2011 at 8:14 pm “aborigine have c ydna ”

      Dravidians from the 3rd millennium BC of the Indus River Valley’s Sumerian World Empire of the Chaldees is where their Earths mixed raced Laborers worked. The ‘L’ DNA Black African and ‘R1a’ DNA Adamics with some ‘H’ DNA Arian languages mixed with the Sumerian-of the Sumerian World Empire included what we now call the Dravidians of the Devas-Tamil Burghers and mixed Labor races. This mix was as the Akkadians that Labored for the (Devas-Tamil-Yezidi) Chaldeans of Sumer.

      The Dravidian is a language that spread as the European’s (Hindu) Indo-Arian language. In Europe is the Celtic language that differs from Europe’s Arian language. The Celts (from the Chaldean ‘J’ DNA) mixed with the ‘R’ 200,00 yr DNA of the pre Neanderthal type Arians and begot their ‘R1b’ DNA. Also they mixed with the ‘R1a’ DNA of the Adamics coming out of Sumer’s Trade Empire. The Celtic-Arian mix is what we have now. But the Celt’s Welsh, Sephardic, Basque have kept their original language for special writing purposes. One could say, it was/is their secret language.

      The Tamil Burghers have always been the people of Sciences and Architect of Temples and high tech cities with the Seven Headed feathered naga/Serpent religion. The same as the Devas and Chaldean Sumerians to the Chaldean Sephar.dics from Sippar, Sumer.

    • Vimla Westwood

      John Kernot is possibly correct. I am a Fijian Indian married to an Englishman and live in London. In 1971 when I left Fiji to come here, we spent a few months travelling in Australia. One of the places we visited – my favourite place – was Alice Springs. Alice Springs of 1971 is very different to what it is today. My husband and I came upon about a 100 or so aboriginal people (both men and women) sitting around a pub, all quite drunk. We walked over to them. Their eyes were on me, wondering whether I was one of them or a foreigner. They were all chattering away and my husband asked me if the language sounded like Tamil. Being half Tamil and half Telugu – I read and write a little Tamil and spoke a Fiji patois and although I couldn’t understand what they were saying, I couldn’t help but wonder if what they spoke sounded very like some ancient Tamil.

      I have always felt that the South Indians – particularly the Tamil Dravidians – had some connection with the Australian Aboriginal people.

  8. tamil people are short,with big nose especially in southern tamilnadu. they are having less sharp facial features and are very dark in complexion. so is many south indians and central indians. tamilian nationalism is based on fake theory of dravidianism.

    • vivek

      Check this

      http://www.youtube.com/user/tamilsantham#g/u

      Hmmm why you Aryans are always so fanatical about Aryanism and Indian Nationalism. In turn we are making them also fanatical about their language. Acceptance is good medicine for rifts, accept and start appreciating each other… In the process of convincing others am also starting to love their language. Dont worry tamilians are also Indians. But do try to acknowledge the glory of their languages and race, enough is enough for your religious and caste based suppresions under the name of Hinduism… Moreover there were times in Tamil land, some sect of people considered the tamil language is untouchable and spread the hatred. Of/course scholars of the same sect acknowledge the truth and documented the truth in late early 18th centuries after intervention of many scholars from Europe. Please accept the truths…

      Btw my mother tongue is Telugu…

      • In the 19th century..Max Mueller created a false assumption that Aryans were a superior race with a superior language..and most of India believed it..!!
        In reality the Aryans came from Turkey which was culturally thousands of years behind the Dravidians who had already established civilizations as old as Egypt and who had already developed the most refined ancient language in the world (arguably ,perhaps).
        Further,, Dravidians are to be found throughout India,Pakistan and Afghnistan..remember they came from Mesopotamia..so not all of them travelled down south..
        Sindh and parts of Punjab are full of Dravidians ..many still look like Iraqis even though they came 10000 years ago….
        Furthermore,, Europe was full of white indigenous people with non caucasian features…Europeans only started to have caucasian features after the Arabs migrated to U.K. and the rest of Europe..The saxons Celts etc arrived from the middle east…introducing their culture etc and their looks…
        SO to sum up..before the Dravidians arrived from the middle east..there were indigenous people in India..and before the Arabs arrived in Europe there were indigenous people in Europe…….
        What confuses many is : why do the Indians prefer to ignore the ancient dravidian history…it is amazing history that some of the West prefer to keep a secret.. !! – and why do the Indians prefer to speak only of the less ancient aryan civilization…
        Angkor wat and the Mayan civilizations are attributed to the Dravidians by many historians…
        This is a mystery…perhaps the Indians are very unique _ they dont like India to be seen in a positive light..Interesting race…time for this confusion to end ..perhaps..

      • appadithasolluvenda

        wow … love u man well said ……

    • Show me one Tamilian with a wide nose, I will commit suicide. You are talking of Veddoid features. Dont confuse the two. They may be related but are not the same.

  9. husayn

    http://www.pbase.com/oochappan/image/38344810

    these are tamils what shit are you people lying about?

  10. husayn

    http://www.pbase.com/oochappan/image/84013585

    tamil men how are thes people like aborigine ?stop spreading lies !

    • So true Husayn. India’s history tells of a tall caucasian (light skinned)peoples coming down from the Northern regions with each semi Ice Age and mixing with the short (5 ft and less), brown hair and skinned of the original and most ancient race in mid to southern Asia. These tall(over 6 ft) was given as the Neanderthal man having developed the stone tools and hunting stone tools dating back into the last Ice Age, pre 12,000 years ago. See India’s historical tales and DNA Charts.

      The Sumerian World trade Empire being of the Chaldeans had developed their Industry in the Fertile Crescent of the Indus River Valley in the 3rd millennium BC. In the northern parts from Pakistan is where a Hopi tribe (same as in Americas)had been found to be very similar to the Sumerians (Chaldeans) of the Samara culture of Erech/Iraq and of the Maya in India and the Americas. See Nagaland Province/country!

      The common and most prevalent genetics of ‘R1a’ DNA of the Adamics are different than the Neanderthal type of its descendants known as the Arians. During the time of the Sumerian powers in western India(Pakistan), they were over ran by the Arian caucasians from Turkey to eastern Iran and Oral Sea areas after they had already, from their Mitanni in the Akkadian lands, smashed Sumer, Egypt and continued into Indus River Industrial lands of Sumer. Their people also included all the Naga/Serpent believing religion as was also India’s 7,000 yr civilization of the Devas.

      The Devas characteristics of temples and religion were as the Sumerian’s Naga/Serpent beliefs as the Kurd’s Yezidi previously coming out of India as the Hopi, Maya, (Indians) and Roma. India’s history tells of them escaping from the on coming Arians and traveling away in Ships of the Ponics/Phonic-ians. Their arrival in the Americas tells about them landing in the 16th century.

      Now the ‘R1a’ DNA adamic people was known, in India’s historical records, as the Land of Cush (Adamic Cushites ) being located in the upper western parts of India now called Pakistan (includes the Hindu-Cush Mountain Range). It reached across into Turkey. It became as the Adamic Mede Empire of the last half of the 1st millennium BC. They were of the Adamic Pashtuns and the mixed races of the Akkadians/Dravidians with the Black African ‘L’ DNA, Arian ‘H’ (and mixed) DNA, and Arab ‘U’ DNA.

      The Devas, known for their 7 feathered Serpent statues, had fought the IsaRaYah Tribes (Isa-Jesus/Ra-Sun/Yah-god) seen in India’s ancient history. This was as the Tamil Burghers but also as what the Akkadian called the Sumerians -“Burghers”. The DNA Charts show the ‘J’ DNA similarities of these Chaldeans. The Aryan god was as the Hellen’s Hellios Sun-god that is even seen across into Egypt and Europa. Europe’s language was called INDO-ARYAN {changed after the WWII’s Holocaust} language similar to the Dravidian language.

      The previous mentioned from the beginning of this page, they stated a 1/3rd of a genetic DNA but the other 2/3rds may be the origins of the people. The Aborigine of Australia and of the south Pacific islands have genetics far before (7,000 yrs) Tamil Burghers {7000 yr Devas and 25,000 yr Maya =Yezidi) ever started in India.

      • Dravidians came from Sumeria in Mesopotamia/Babylon..
        Most of them did not leave India..They were never chased to the south..We can than good old Max Mueller for distorting history and calling sanskrit an indo european language when most of it is Dravidian..Dravidian is more refined than any european language…..

        Some Dravidians/Sumerians did establish civilizations in South America,Vietnam (Angkor Watt)..Thailand etc..
        Some even explored AUstralia /New Zealand a thousand years ago..
        But the bulk are still in India Pakistan etc…

        The Tanjavur temple in south India…..examples of Dravidian architecture..Many such temples throughout India..

        Tamil burghers is a newish term referring to people mixed with European ,indigenous and some dravidian…

      • history what histoy, it just a story like many other.
        You are my son. do you believe it. this is you concept of history
        GROW UP

  11. husayn

    http://www.pbase.com/oochappan/image/72115774

    tamil man
    hey for donkeys ever thought how come indians settled in australia in recent times, the dravidians were sea trading people it is sure a possible our people migrated there in ancient history ?our people mixed with those people

  12. husayn

    http://www.pbase.com/oochappan/image/72924148

    this is tamil he has long pretty hair which is wavy his has a nice shape and his nose is not broad what bullshit are u talkng about?

  13. husayn

    http://jackgruber.com/athens/iraq-2/

    moroccan soccer player in green looks like so many tamils i have have seen many tamils like him after thousands of yrs coming out of egypt we still have people like us in north africa east africa and arabia! so u can stop your bullshit

  14. husayn

    asiatic man of east africa very similar to us the old man i mean

  15. husayn

    http://www.asiantribune.com/node/5795

    tamil men aborigines what the ?are you kidding yes there dark but we are a unique dark race

  16. husayn

    Dravidian languages, was carried from Elam to India by eastward migration; this is the view proposed by David McAlpin this man is truthful check what david mcalphin says and read what i dreamt same thing

    • actually it is the dravidians who are the sumerians
      i have dreamt a explanation of the dravidians i dreamt that they were negroid in type(hamitic) with straight hair and were also egyptians after this i dreamt that they came from the fertile crescent in syria close to the sea and after this i dreamt that they came from north africa close to the sea and i see arrows showing their travel one arrow goes up into syria and the other arrow went east through southern iraq and all of southern iran until the arrow stopped at northwest india i have also dreamt their migration was in the shape of a U turn on the river nile nothing i saw had to do with horn of africa nothing

  17. husayn

    By 2300 B.C.E., the Mesopotamians wrote that Elam was the country that covered the entire Iranian plateau from the Caspian Sea to the Persian Gulf, including a bit of today’s southeastern Iraq. The actual extent of Elam, however, spread much further from Central Asia to Afghanistan, Pakistan and on to the southern shores of the Persian Gulf.

  18. husayn

    The features which the proto-Indian culture and the Mesopotamian culture have in common may quite possibly be explained by the fact that the people who created the oldest Indian civilisation and the first men to develop the valley of the Tigris and Euphrates were cognate peoples speaking Dravidian languages. Or perhaps they were simply one and the same people. It is also possible that the Dravidian languages may have been common to other peoples besides the Ubaids and the proto-lndians.

    p The region east of the Tigris, in Iran, called Khuzistan, was once known as Elam. A civilisation flourished there 5,000 years ago with citystates, a distinctive culture and a written language. Scholars find that the culture of the Elamites had many features in common with that of Mesopotamia, and even more so with the protoIndian culture.

    p The Elamites spoke and wrote a language with which it has been impossible so far to find affinities. Linguists have attempted, unsuccessfully, to demonstrate that Elamite is related to the Turanian (Ural-Altaic, Turkic and Mongolic languages), to the numerous Caucasian languages, or to the dead languages of Asia Minor (Human, Kassite, etc.). “The only hypothesis supported by a few indicative facts is that of an ElamoDravidian relationship,” says the eminent Soviet historian and linguist I. Dyakonov in his 144 monograph Languages of Ancient. Asia Minor. Dyakonov cites examples showing affinities between Elamite and the languages used by the Dravidians. In the Uravidian languages the root “ketu” means “perish” or “be destroyed”. In the Elam language it means “destroy”. The word for “day” in Elamite is “nan” whereas in the Dravidian languages this root “nan” means “morning”,“dawn” and “day”. The root “pari” in Elamite means “reach”, while in the Dravidian languages it means “flee” or “evade”.

    p Languages borrow words from one another, of course. Besides, sounds and meanings may accidentally coincide (for example, both in English and Kabardinian, a language of the Caucasus Mountains, the numeral 2 sounds the same, although there is no relationship between the two languages). But the important thing is that Elamite and the Dravidian languages have many common grammatical structures, and grammatical structures are never borrowed. This speaks either of ancient affinities or of contacts over a long period of time. Both phonetically and morphologically Elamite is similar to the Dravidian languages. And the pronouns are so similar that, says Dyakonov, “they sometimes fully coincide”.

    p The affinities between Elamite and the Dravidian languages have led Dyakonov to assume that “tribes related by language to the Elamites and the Dravidians were scattered throughout Iran, or at any rate, throughout southern Iran, in the fourth and third millennia B.C. and perhaps later as well. Besides, traces of Dravidian toponymy (true, they do not date back to any definite period) have evidently been found on the Arabian Peninsula, while traces of an admixture 145 of the Dravidoid (South Indian) race have been noted, say some researchers, in several regions of southern Iran.” Later the dark-skinned Dravidians, or peoples related to them linguistically and racially, were forced out of Iran or were completely assimilated by the newcomers. True, Herodotus, who lived in the fifth century B.C., still called the inhabitants of Baluchistan, a country situated between India and Elam, “Asiatic Ethiopians” (that is, “Asiatic Negroes”), which might mean that dark-skinned people inhabited the area between Iran and India as late as about 2,500 years ago.
    and one thing the ignorance of many white people have not change if you brown they call u black who are they to label people and all the pics i posted of tamil dravidians look nothing like somalians neither ethiopian as i said some resemble us but not many nowhere does it mention somalian neither ethiopian just dravidian

  19. husayn

    It is fully possible that Elamite and the Ubaid languages branched off from the common Dravidian stock at an early date, and this explains the similarities and the differences between them. There might be another explanation. The Dravidian languages, the language of the Ubaids who preceded the Sumerians, and Elamite might all go back to a more remote common language. They might be three branches of that language. Most of the Elamite texts are written in the cuneiform script that the Elamites borrowed from their Western neighbours, the Akkadians and the Sumerians, in the middle of the third millennium B.C. Before that the Elamites used hieroglyphics. And still earlier they had a pictorial graphic system called proto-Elamite.

    p Proto-Elamite writing has not yet been deciphered. In appearance the texts and the pictorial characters are very like proto-Sumerian, the earliest Mesopotamian writing. The inhabitants of Mesopotamia also wrote on clay tablets, using a pictorial-linear form of writing and, like the proto-Sumerian texts, they were evidently also household accounts and business documents.
    146

    p A third proto-writing, characters of which have been found at Harappa, Mohenjo-Daro and other prehistoric sites on the Indian subcontinent, has affinities with the characters in proto-Sumerian and proto-Elamite scripts. The earliest Mesopotamian texts are written in Sumerian, as recent studies by A. Vaiman of the Soviet Union have shown, although the first inhabitants of the valley of the Tigris and Euphrates were not Sumerians but Ubaids, who spoke a language cognate with the Dravidian languages.

    p The language of the proto-Elamite texts, probably the earliest form of the Elamite language, differs from the language of the proto-Sumerian inscriptions. Proto-Indian texts conceal the Dravidian language rather than the Sumerian or Elamite; therefore, proto-Sumerian writing cannot provide a key with which to decipher the mysterious scripts of the Indian subcontinent and Elam, especially since proto-Sumerian writing has been only partially deciphered. Scholars can read only 250 of the 800 characters in protoSumerian writing. Still, the similarity among the characters of the three proto-writings leads one to think that they were derived from a single common ancestor. After all, the cuneiform script later invented by the Sumerians was used to record the Akkadian, Elamite, Urartean, Hittite and other languages that bear no resemblance to Sumerian. One can find a common basic stock of similar characters among the characters used in proto-Sumerian, proto-Elamite and protoIndian writing.

  20. husayn

    Philologists and toponymists use the term “substratum” when speaking of languages and place-names that precede the languages and names they are studying. When it comes to the characters 147 in early writings we may also speak of a “ substratum”, an initial pictorial graphic system that came before the proto-Sumerian, proto-Elamite and proto-Indian writings. Since the proto– Sumerian texts are the oldest, and the first inhabitants of Mesopotamia, before the Sumerians, were the Ubaids, we may use the word “Ubaid” to designate the oldest system of writing.(This was not writing in the full sense of the word but sooner a language of drawings, the pictography that preceded archaic forms of writing.) The system existed in Mesopotamia before the Sumerians came there. The Sumerians adopted the system and used it to develop their own writing, the proto-Sumerian, in the same way that they adopted and developed other Ubaid material and intellectual achievements.

    The same thing may have happened on both the Indian subcontinent and Elam. The similarity of the proto-Indian, proto-Elamite and protoSumerian scripts is again explained by their Dravidian basis. The Ubaid language is perhaps a cognate language, like the language of the Elamites and the proto-Indians. Dravidian “basic writing”, like a Dravidian “basic language”, may have existed in remote antiquity. The Ubaid, proto-Indian and Elamite pictorial characters may bo offshoots of that “basic script”, in the same way that the Ubaid, Elamite and protoIndian languages are offshoots of the “parent Dravidian language”.

  21. husayn

    The best-known Dravidian languages are Tamil , Telugu , Kannada and Malayalam. There are three subgroups within the Dravidian linguistic family: North Dravidian, Central Dravidian, and South Dravidian, matching for the most part the corresponding regions in the Indian subcontinent.

    Dravidian languages are spoken by more than 200 million people. They appear to be unrelated to languages of other known families like Indo-European, specifically Indo-Aryan, which is the other common language family on the Indian subcontinent. Some linguistic scholars incorporate the Dravidian languages into a larger Elamo-Dravidian language family, which includes the ancient Elamite language (Haltami) of what is now south-western Iran. Dravidian is one of the primary linguistic groups in the proposed Nostratic language system, linking almost all languages in North Africa, Europe and Western Asia into a common family with its origins in the (Fertile Crescent sometime between the last Ice Age and the emergence of proto-Indo-European 4-6 thousand years BC.[citation needed])
    above is not my words
    (and also as i said i dreamt the dravidians came from the fertile in syria close to the sea and before this i had no knowledge of what the fertile crescent was!)and below is not either

    Dravidian grammatical impact on the structure and syntax of Indo-Aryan languages is considered far greater than the Indo-Aryan grammatical impact on Dravidian. Some linguists explain this anomaly by arguing that Middle Indo-Aryan and New Indo-Aryan were built on a Dravidian substratum.[20]

  22. husayn

    Elamo-Harappan origins for Haplogroup J2 in India?

    The presence of Haplogroup J2 in India, including the subclades M410 and M241 has been an often overlooked clue to the origins of M172. Sengupta et al, in 2005 worked to explain the presence of M172 in India. Their paper provides an immediate acknowledgement of the proposed spread of proto-Elamo-Dravidian speaking peoples into India originating from the Indus Valley and southwest Persia. The idea that M172 may have been carried into India with proto-Elamo-Dravidian groups is supported by the frequencies of Haplogroup J in one of the only remaining Dravidian Speaking ethnic groups in the Iranian Plateau, the Brahui. 28% of the Brahui, an ethnic Dravidian speaking group from Western Pakistan were found to carry the mutation defining Haplogroup J. Overall Haplogroup J2 in India represented 9.1% of this very populous nation. In Pakistan, M172 accounted for 11.9% of the Y-Chromosomes typed. Sengupta’s paper broke down the frequencies of Haplogroup J2 into various caste and language groups. J2 was found to be significantly higher among Dravidian castes at 19% than among Indo-European castes at 11%. J2a-M410 in particular may be a strong candidate for a proposed migration of proto-Dravidian peoples from the Iranian Plateau or the Indus Valley since J2a M410 is a very high component of the haplogroup J2 chromosomes found in Pakistan. Over 71% of the M172 found in Pakistan was M410+.

    Another interesting characteristic in the distribution of M172 and more specifically, M410, in India was its higher frequencies in Upper Caste Dravidians. M410+ chromosomes were found in 13% of Upper Caste Dravidians. Sengupta goes on to suggest an Indian origin of Dravidian speakers but from a Y chromosome perspective, the paper seems to acknowledge M172 arriving in India from Middle Eastern and Indus Valley Civilizations.

    • susa

      Yes very true..dravidians did arrive from iraq/persia….
      in india..these dravidians established the mergargh civilization which is as old as egpyt…
      of course before the dravidians arrived there were australoid and proto mongoloid groups in india..
      would love to know what the indigenous people of europe looked like..since the patrician/caucasian features were introduced there by the iraqis ..ie abraham sarahs descendents…

      • hey susa,
        bible : the creation dates back to 5000bc at most 7000 Bc
        Abraham : 2000 bc
        and if you read bible you have the tree line from Abraham to jesus (0 A.D)

        Tamil written record dates back to 10,000 BC.
        Mahabrartham dates back to 10,000 BC

  23. husayn

    L1 (M27, M76) Found frequently in Indians, Sri Lankans, and Balochs, with a moderate distribution in other populations of Pakistan, southern Iran, and Arabia
    # L2 (M317) Found at low frequency in Central Asia, Southwest Asia, and Southern Europe

    * L2*
    * L2a (M349)
    * L2b (M274)

    # L3 (M357) Found frequently among Burusho and Pashtuns, with a moderate distribution among other populations in Pakistan, Georgia, northern Iran, India, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia

    dravidians are living in afghanistan and central balochistan as well as pakistan(kalat and also quetta) all these people have straight hair

  24. husayn

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=101726

    and people found in arabia same as us we have so many like the first four men of the mahrah tribe these are same as us

  25. Eezhaa

    Mr.Husayn I am sorry but I am not able to understand what you are trying to say here…

  26. Eezhaa

    Are you trying you to tell that Dravidians were the South Indian people or branched at large or perished…There is a legend that there existed a Kanni Kandam thousands of years ago and it was split by geographical issues..We don exactly look like Africans but we have many similarities with Africans and Australian Aborigines in a lot of ways..I think you have not visited all parts of Tamilnadu …We can find a lot of same facial structures like africans, aborigines etc..Unless a proper research is done and found we cant say anything…

  27. vivek

    Guys those who know Tamil check the following videos!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/user/tamilsantham#g/u

  28. eric arasu

    dravidians have been long downplayed of their origin, brilliance,language etc simply because we are a heavily pigmented people and the light skin aryan is seen as more beautiful and therefore more intelligent, more ‘correct’. We must admit this rubbish of a world that exalts lighter skin as more superior, beautiful. Once we get that out of the way, people can start accepting highest truths and facts….that the Dravidians are the indigenous peoples of the subcontinent and that they are actually more peace loving and more intelligent than the ‘better looking’ lighter skin(still pigmented though) aryans. It is a disease, the preferring of lighter skin. Even in Malaysia where i was born and am living, the chinese prefer the fairer skin ones. The chinese people of Penang are darker because of the island sun and preferred is the Ipoh-Kampar chinese in Perak state where the much fairer skin is adored. Worse off is the case of the malay people. Every women magazine will have pages of skin lightening creams. Latest being deodorant for men which has skin lightening ingredients! That’s men’s deodorant!Fairer armpits, thats the malaysia i(a very dark Tamil guy) is living in.

    • no Dravidians are not ,not the indigenous of India..the afircans and proto mongoloids are..The Dravidians arrived ten thousand years ago from Sumeria……
      You distort history if you say this..that the Dravidians are the indigenous…

      You also join many Indians who prefer to ignore the achivements of the Dravidians…..

      Those indigenous tribes are for some part still living in India…they look very different to the pure Dravidians who can also be found inSindh,Pakistan etc…..

  29. rathhna

    One need not be surprised to know that ‘Australian aboriginal language and people’ resemble Dravidian (south indian Tamil) language and people because Tamil epics talks about a huge land mass KUMARI KANDAM (popularly known as LEMURIA) existed several years ago and major part of it was later swallowed by the indian ocean. It will be interesting to know that this KUMARI KANDAM contained southern most regions of India, the whole of Australia, the whole of Srilanka and the whole of Madagaskar. This KUMARI KANDAM was a Tamil region with Tamil kingdom(s) and the first two ‘Tamil sangams’ (assemblies of tamil scholars) were held here in remote past.

  30. venkat

    hi friends this is venkat from chennai.Before coming across this page in the internet even i had a feeling that tamil and australian aborgines have some historical linkages.
    Adding to the previously mentioned word calling a place in the middle of the australian mainland “Ulooroo” near Alice springs, which in actual tamil means “a place in the interior” .There is an island in the North western part of Australia called the” Tivu island”.
    In tamil “tivu or Teevu” means an island.

  31. Nalini

    I’m a Malaysian of South Indian origin & travelled to Melbourne & Sydney a couple of times. Yep, i agree with Venkat with what Ulurru means in Tamil. The Hindu priests spreads ashes across his arms & body just the way Abos. At times, some Abo words rhyme smilar to Tamil words eg: Maliya Thalu (honey site), a place in Western Australia translated referes to Tamil’s Maliya (Hill/site). I did come acroass a research done which found similarities between Nilgeri tribe from South India with a local abo tribe.
    I reckon some South Indian Tribes

  32. I always knew this. I have heard Aboriginal peoples of Arnhem land in Australia speak. Its amazing how much it sounds like how alot of tamil people speak. They even look like the darker skinned tamils.
    Keep in mind that i read about an Aboriginal elder that said their people were remnants of a highly advanced civilisation that sunk into the ocean.
    And that the survivors were forced to live simple lives as tribals.
    Tamil people speak of Kumari Kandam. I have heard several African tribes talk about this also.
    Truth is stranger than fiction. The white supremacist education system has covered up alot of the true history of the world because they want to demonize the darker peoples of the world as ‘savage’.

  33. c.premkumar

    i am very surprise to see this.i belongs to tamilnadu.

  34. Sky

    Bharatavarshe is the land from Vindhya (Himalayas) to down south Kerala & Lanka !!. folks – Lets be clear. what scares our aryan theory followers are that their culture is a copy of the dravidians. Kumari Kandam is correct – no reason to lie here – these texts were written more than 18 centuries back. the similarity between Tamils & Austrlian aborginals point to that direction, so these people came from a common land that connected south india & australia maybe 10,000 to 40,000 yrs back. Tribals always treasured their culture & they carried it for 1000s of generations, so these texts came from there – no rocket science. here. Sanskrit was given by the Nagas to the Aryas (aryas are the noble men within the Naga tribe – thats why you have brahmins in every community – they were just the noble men like the aristocrats – no separate race !!) – written 18 centuries back on a temple in south India – no reason to lie here. Nagas are dravidians & they lived next door – nagapattinam, etc… so Sanskrit came up indigeneously within the dravidian race (something our aryan friends will vehemently deny – but ask them to pronounce one vedic hymn, they cannot becos it is in dravidian consonant !!), these tribes would have pointed to the external origin of sanskrit if true like the Kumari Kandam island. Jain texts written 1000s of years back confirm that Ramayana & Mahabarat are stories of dravidian chieftains (Telugu, Kannada, tamil, Malayalam kings) in south india !!. Kannada king defeats Indran from Indrapala (Andhra) etc.. sanjeevini hills are in andhra, agasthiar hills, Vatapi, Kansapuram, Madurai (mathura – Megasthenes calls this city as Mathura – land of krishna centuries back), kiskinda, pandapura, Gangavathi, kannada kings were called Ganga kingdoms, Cauvery is Ganga, Triveni sangam is in Tamil Nadu etc.. – all cities mentioned in these texts are in south india !!

    • not very logical to separate North and South India,,
      -there are indigenous people,throughout India..
      -there are Dravidians(ie people who came from Iraq 9-10 thousand years ago) throughout India….
      Aryans have been there for long too..they would have explored the sub continent too..

      again..Indians are the most amazing race in this aspect :
      putting India down and splitting India…
      even denouncing the dravidian heritage and lumping it with the indigenous
      .of India…so that its history is down played..only Indians have this ability
      Indigenous people can be found all over the world ..with different skin colours due to the weather…isnt that a logical anthropological conclusion one can make…

  35. Sky

    And the other common mistake people do is that – just because Sanskrit was not written during Ashokas’ time does NOT mean it did not exist during that time & it could only have come from outside. you have look at the history of India from South to North & not the other way !!. Dravidians came to south india from Kumari Kandam Island 10,000+ yrs back & they established kingdoms in the south. Kannada (Maurya & Guptas) & Telugu kings (Kalinga/Nagas) conquered the north & spread their culture there. Also many tribes lived independant of others & hence some Naga tribe (subsect..) could have had sanskrit for 5000+ yrs & not known to the others. the fact that sanskrit is so “dravidianized”, the Vedic Hymns are all in dravidian consonant, it could only have originated in south !. Classical sanskrit originates from the Vedic Sanskrit (no disputes here), so sanskrit is a dravidian origin !! & it is very well possible that this spread to other countries/languages through the sea faring traders/contacts !!

    • susa

      true about sanskrit…most words are dravidian..
      but dravidians came from iraq..many dravidians did not travel south many are still in pakistan,afghanistan and many more in sindh…

    • Nokku varmam rulez

      Sky, i think i am getting to know what you are trying to express here; but i have a one question. If Sanksrit is a dravidian language, why is it that when William Jones came to stay and wanted to master ancient sanskrit (a person who was already quite a master in the languages of greek and latin), in 1780, Found -please note, it was ‘Found’- that there were several similarities in Latin and Greek? I can give you many examples, but to name one; the number ‘three’ in english is known to be as ‘trias’ in Greek, ‘tres’ in Latin and ‘Trayas’ in Sanskrit. Actually, you can even google them up and compare. After linguists compared with other languages, they were actually quite shocked. It wasn’t only those two languages that sankrit had cognates to; French, German, Dutch, Old Slavic, Spanish and even English were discovered to be similar. Please also note that the cognates had related meaning, sounded similar to eachother as in terms of vowels or consonants, in some cases, even both. So, yes, the sanskrit consonants may be quite similar to the dravidian, but to look more broadly not one but several other languages have similarities to the consonants being used in sankrit language. Thus, i don’t think we can straight-forwardly say the language is dravidian.
      Also, About the post conveying of Magasthenes; they are good points. But i have heard that people who spoke sanskrit invaded the North first, then moved to places such as Pandya. It makes sense; like Lord Rama was born in Ayodhya and visited downwards and Shri Krishna was born in Mathura as you considered.
      I don’t know where the sanskrit aspect became part of this website’s posts, but i just wanted to share my thoughts :)

      • Hi Nokku..
        When Sanskrit came to India ..the people were thousands of years behind the Dravidian culture..so the Aryans brought a few words..
        yoga etc..full of ancient dravidian words..dravidian words are almost in the form of a cube…each word is complex and can be extremely precise..
        aryans and dravidians came be found all over India..they have intermarried and become one..there has been intermarriages with the indigenous too…
        hindi is a very pretty language…too…

  36. Sky

    Read the above 2 posts!. Continuing, in a very important historical evidence, Megasthenes goes to patliputra 300 BC & then goes all the way to the pandian kingdom (does not visit any other) & then writes about madurai – as Methora as the land of Krishna !! & talks about a story like Illiad in the court of Madurai King – (Troy is Ramayana – wife gets kidnapped triggers an extra-ordinary war. Ramayana is written by the Victors & Troy/Lanka version is written by the defeated.) & talks of the caste system – all this in the pandian kingdom. so the Sanskrit language, vedas, caste system, arya vanshi, Ramayana, Mahabaratam etc., are all dravidian in origin.

    • Yes definitely..
      Plato was heavily influenced by Hindu thought..
      Hercules is from..Krishna..
      Pytahgaros studied in India..

      Can anyone explain why Indians prefer to ignore facts and down play their own history which is as old as Egypt and bigger..
      Life of pi..the book…describes that Portugueses first built roads in India..Indians are happy,excited about this..even though the truth is that Indians had roads twp thousand years before the Romans..wow..unique race!!

  37. tamilan da

    Who gives a fuck if the Australian Aboriginals are tamils.. What does it matter anyway.. I’m tamil

    • This is a discussion forum. People with good mind and good thoughts are sharing their views. Do not use some bad words and say you are ‘Tamilan Da’. Sure you are not a Tamilan. This show how your parents are.

      • So..you are saying that the Dravidians who came from SUmeria and established the Mergargh civilisatios and who can be found through out the sub continent are the same ethnicity as the indiginous people of India…..Myabe a visit to the State Library will tell you that the original people of India were the australoids and proto-mongoloidss and they can still be found in their pure form in India..although many are mixed….

      • Dravidians have a close resemblance to Arian-European language. The older Arian language is found in India and was changed faster in Europe because of the European trade continued but in India it had stopped for a long period of time.
        The Arian type caucasian, called Neanderthal type, came down from their northern lands into India with each Ice Age. The last one was probably around 14000 BC or round abouts. The Aborigine/Polynesian or short, 5 foot or less, brown skinned and hair people seem to date far before the Neanderthal types (650,000-200,000 yr) do. The Sumerians’ indusatrial Empire in the Indus River Valley settlements (includes the Hopi Indian) were to have been since the 3rd millennium BC and ended with the 1600s Arian envasian that came across from Mitanni and Black Sea lands. The adamics (‘R1a’ DNA) seem to be in this area since the 3rd Millennium BC and are still there. The adamic Land of Cush (Cushites)are have a mountain range called from their names as Hindu-Cush Mountain Range. The land that spoke Dravidian was from these people. Their land became as the Mede Empire to the Baluchistan that streched from the Caucasus from Iran into India/Pakistan.
        The Sumerians in India were as the Devas, Tamil, including the Maya, Hopi, etc that can also be seen as the S. American Indians.

      • Hopi Indians are the indigenous people of South America..not the Dravidian Akkadian group that established the mayan civilization..
        Nobody knows what happened to this group…
        hopi and the dravidian/sumerian dont look anything like each other as they have different ethnicities,,
        Tha caucasian an d the neanderthals are diff ethnicities too..
        You are right abouth the indigenous people of India being a totally different race ,culture.etc from the dravidians who arrived from Sumeria thousands of years ago…

  38. susa

    True..since all races are equal…
    But no..dravidians are caucasians from mesopotamia…
    but the people who were in india before the dravidians arrived ..were similar in race to the australian aboriginals i.e. -non caucasian
    Ancient tamils ..were excellent mariners…they are said to have “discovered” Australia…1000 years ago..so some more contact between the two distinct races…
    Some historians have said that the Dravidians and Akkadians “discovered” South america too…

    Not sure which group is so intent on grouping the australoids with the ancient dravidians ..whose language has even cropped up in French and Japanese….Tamil is the most refined language in the world..
    The western (and Indian ?) goes to great lengths not to show old dravidian buildings …and Ruins of the Mergargh civilization ..which is as old as egpyt..

    The indigenous people can still be seen in India..in their original outfits…

    • Lin Mathew

      Hi friends, I was surprised to see the news in ABC channel 2 days before about aborginal’s DNA test !!! I recently came to Australia and heared about aborginal people and was wondering if I can see them – couldn’t see them in melbourne. So, I searched for them in google and was really amazed!!! Because they looks similar to a tribal group called ‘paniya tribe’ in Kerala, south India. I was joking to my husband saying that ‘I think the aborginals are migrated from south India’ :-). Now, the DNA test proves that the aborginals came from India!!! Please go to google Images and search for ‘paniya tribe’..

      • Yes they are our indigenous peoples….India has two or three types of indigenous people…they tend to be called scheduled castes…..
        Dravidians who are not mixed with the indigenous people look caucasian …
        But the problem that needs to be addressed is the ignorance of their ancient sophisticated .highly influential. culture…and the fact that they are spread throughout south asia and beyond

  39. MGT

    Hinduism was practised in india and south east asia 3000-4000 years back. It is possible that there was lot of traffic and trade between these regions at that time and people from south India and srilanka visiting SE Asia had also drifted to the Australian continent and many of them settled there at that time and now are part of the aborginal population. More likely explaination.

  40. yo. as far as i am concerned. i am a pure tamil and i have a lot of aboriginal friends and everybody thinks i am aboriginal so i have no problem with it. i think i look aboriginal as well and there is nothing wrong with that for me.

    • Tamil..is actually a language..
      You must be an indigenous.Indian .and why should you have a problem with that..all races are equal….anyway..only a sub intelligent person would say that a particular race is better than another..
      The only thing is since MAx Mueller grouped the indigenous with the dravidians….Indian history is wrongfully regarded as a culture that is not as ancient as Egypt or Mesopotamia…

  41. venkat

    Hi

    I have been living WA for the last 3 months. Before reading this I noticed that a large number of village names and person and tribe names ending in a,e,i,o,u and thought a strong connection to telugu/kannada/sanskrit exists. Largely the anthropometric features are again similar to telugus and not so prominent maxillary bone. One living under the UV radiation will change skin color over hundreds of years. There are also a few words close to tamil and ceylonese. I am convinced by reading the genetic studies after all it is one earth.

  42. jithin

    i am a doc.i am happy to find someone who has done some work on this topic like i did.tamils and australians evolved from similar lineage(australiodravidan. Due to changes in isolated population(refer darwins work on Galapogas island)australian population shows slight variance from parent population/i am referring to indigenous australian population .i ll put forward more facts in favour of the author later.keep up good work man

  43. jithin

    i am a doc.i am happy to find someone who has done some work on this topic like i did.tamils and australians evolved from similar lineage(australiodravidan. Due to changes in isolated population(refer darwins work on Galapogas island)australian population shows slight variance from parent population/i am referring to indigenous australian population .i ll put forward more facts in favour of the author later.keep up good work man
    Australiodravidans were the first to leave africa ,the birth place of humans around40000-50000b.c
    Australians are dravidans who travelled even south beyond tamilnadu to australia,due to lemuria landmass then australia was approachable

    • Jithin..nice to hear you are a doctor..

      But..the australoids were in India first..the dravidians came later from Iraq…

      • Satyanweshi

        really?…but they bear very little physical resemblance with Iraqis.

      • Even after 9-10 thousand years…the resemblance of the dravidians to Iraqis more visual than to our indigenous people..Most Tamil brahmins etc ,sindhis,kerala brahmins ,namboothiris etc ,.many Pakistanis,Afghans .dont look indigenous at all…definitley would look local in Iraq..(Nebuchadnezzar..1Kings in the Bible..is also a Dravidian..worth a read..he was cursed by God and he goes into a renewing by not cutting his hair,nails..etc and finally gets a word from God..)
        Dravidians are to be envied in ancient history..Max Mueller led us to believe.(.and indians believed it with open arms,) ,that the aryans are the brahmins..even the name brahmin sounds Iraqi..def not aryan !-definitely dravidian…
        Interesting race the Indians..

  44. Lived With Australian Aborigines for 30 years.But I have been involved with Indians for 20 years.They come from the same ancient roots so I started asking around. Sri lankan people told me the Aborigine comes from the Tamils and Ancient Dravidians (Sri lankan Dravidians.)
    It now seems as if there was a huge continent (Lemuria ? ) and they all came from this area but obviously mixed all over the world in ancient times. Ancient peoples were much more sophisticated than what we give them credit for. When the continent vanished the survivors spread , A large population went into South India . This would have been in very very ancient times. In “prehistory” times.
    A lot of Indian men working the Kimberleys as Security Gaurds tell me they are amazed at the similarity of the Aboriginal to them .The Aborigine now has different social habits but the basic Cultural Psychology of the two peoples are the same . This is a general interest topic so I cant see why people are getting upset about it ..
    John Kernot.

    • History was distorted by Max Mueller..and many documentaries maintain the down playing od Dravidian history which is as old as Egypt.
      so it is understandable that people who actually do research using accredited historians get upset..
      Yes many people in India,Sri Lanka look like Africans and to a lesser extent a.aboriginies..they are found in the middle east too..they are our indigenous people

      now the Dravidians are a different group,spread though out India..Nebuchadnezzar is a dravidian..in Biblical history,.
      Tamil is often cited as the most refined ancient language..
      Europe had the same indigenous races..different colour due to climate….
      Until the Iraqis from Ur,in Iraq migrated to all of Europe.. Ur in Tamil means home..Many words in the south have a resemblance to latin…but of couse the iraqi or dravidan words are much older..
      Queen Elizabeth is a descendent of King David in the Bible…but in Bible times the Dravidians, Mesopotamians ,The Egyptians were the ones with wealth culture and literacy..
      In fact until the Europeans invaded India in recent times..India was still more literate and cultured and wealthier than the Europeans..Amazing..

      But a minority of people instead of appreciating this ancient Dravidian culture.wants to say they are the indigenous people..
      John I hope you find time to go to the State library..near your home..and do some research..

      Key words for you:
      Tamil language,poetry,literature…prepare to be amazed
      Mohenjo Daro and harappa civilizations..
      Mergargh civilization
      Taxaxila university
      Pythagoras in India
      chess

      • Viswanath Pillai

        Hi

        I am a filmmaker and quite a history fanatic myself. I’ve been reading through the comments and I’ve found ancientmath’s comments in particular was intriguing and I have to agree to your ‘India neglecting it’s vast history and culture’. That is dead darn true! I believe it’s all political more than anything else. Well, that is for another conversation! I’ve read Graham Hancock’s Underworld and he strongly believes that Thamizhs came from Kumari Kandam or or more commonly known as Lemuria. I cannot but back his theory since he was the one who discovered the ancient city of Dwaraka back in 2000. But, it has to be proved and I believe that an expedition in the Indian ocean is just about impossible.

        Kudos to the author for I have been trying to understand the same.

      • yes,Indians should get an award for the race that puts themselves down the most..!..and naturally other people follow suit..the media is an example of that self perpetuation of only the negatives of India..
        for example Zen is always mentioned as if he is a japanese man..but he hails from India..
        Indian/Dravidian prowess is kept such a secret..the media is scared of showing old temples eg tanjavur etc….and Indians love it..in fact many of them get offended if you say that something was invented in India..chess.number system etc..
        it is soo interesting..is it political or deep insecurities…?some kind of psycho analysis needs to be done..
        In Kerala..in some cases if a person goes to Coimbatore for a few weeks they come back saying that they forgot their Malayalam- such an intricate sophisticated language…!!!they think English is superior..go figure…

        So many more examples like that..
        the basis of it is that Max started to claim that dravidians and the indigenous are the same…this is how it all started…the highly literate Indians believed him…the whole of India believed him..!
        Making Indian history not even as old as Europe…
        Only as old as the aryan or Mughal…
        Hope u make a movie soon about all this ,with lots of historical cross referencing..
        Kumari Kandam..-as you said…the evidence is hard to find..and also this history is thousands of years before the known oldest civilizations of the world…
        They have also found no tectonic plates to prove this or Atlantis..

        The migration of the Dravidians from Babylon took place ‘only’ about ten thousand years ago…still ,linguistic and cultural links are there..
        ram,ashram,etc can be found in the old testament..etc..

  45. e.seran senguttuvan

    i think,your article is perpectly truth,Now this time,aryan or europian groups are mingled tamils or dravidians.But,many poorer peoples of scheduled caste ,races are not mingle to aryans.if you take tamil nadu living very poorer race of pallan(r),naadan(r),kallan(r),maravan(r),paraiyan(r),tamil chetty,etc bloods with researching chromochomes.with analyse DNA ,you will get new truth of closest relations with tamils or dravidians,japanese,koreans,indonesian,kampodian,singapore,malasyan,papua new guinean,samoa,peruian,srilankan,pacipic ocean island peoples ,african$,mauritiusian,maldevian,philiphlnes,vietnamese with andaman’s sentinels bloods with DNA are very same and ALL THAT ARE ONE AND THEY ALL ARE LIKE AS A TAMIL RACE OR LEMURIAN HERITITES.by E.SENGUTTUVAN.advocate,kattakkamanpatty.tamilnadu,india.

  46. e.seran senguttuvan

    I think,your article is perpectly truth, Now this situation,Aryans(indo-europian groups) are deeply mingled with tamils or dravidians. But,living many poorer peoples (dravidian scheduled caste-old traditonal race )are not mingled with aryans.But,some other dravidians of keralite,kannadika,telungers are deeply mingled with aryans.So, if you will take tamil nadu living some very poorer race of pallan(r),naadan(r),kallan(r),maravan(r),paraiyan(r),tamil chetty,etc have genes from bloods with researching chromochomes and analyse DNA ,You will get new truth history of closest relations with tamils or dravidians,japanese,koreans,indonesian,kampodian,singapore,malasyan,papua new guinean,samoa,peruian,srilankan,pacipic ocean island peoples ,african$,mauritiusian,maldevian,philiphlnes,vietnamese with andaman’s sentinels bloods with DNA are very same and ALL THAT ARE ONE AND THEY ALL ARE FROM ,LIKE AS A TAMIL RACE OF LEMURIAN HERITITES.by E.SENGUTTUVAN.advocate,kattakkamanpatty.tamilnadu,india.

  47. Anne Williams

    As a mixed race woman born in Lanka (Caucasian/Asian) Sinhala/English I couldnt help but note the place name Badagini in Australia which in Sinhalese means hungry.!! Commonly spoken Sinhalese must surely have some Tamil words included in it.?. I have no knowledge of Aboriginal languages but have been told by an Aussie aboriginal that there are many dialects. Also folk did migrate and left their languages behind. English is now widely spoken which doesnt mean all English speakers are Anglo Saxon Celts!!I spent two years in South India and lived among the Tamils of the hill country of the plantations in Lanka and knew of the early tribal folk of the Nilgiri hills etc.Who were the Veddha Wanniya folk of Sri Lanka? But most amazing of all was the LILT ( the melody) of Tamil and an Aussie Aborigine I heard as a child on the radio not knowing either language. It was almost identical. Rajahs from India did invade Cambodia and the Balinese are Hindu.which happened after Indian conquests later. However Japanese and Chinese are mongoloid races which have migrated from Mongolia down to Indonesia and from the Arctic areas across to North and South America many Polynesians are said to originate from an island near Taiwan. But others such as the Fijians seem to be darker skinnned. Melanesians. Quite obviousy our darker skinned brothers and those of Africa have darker pigments due to having to withstand the hotter climates etc which is why Caucasians?Europeans get skin cancer from over exposure. Our early ancestors came out of Africa and would have migrated northwards and learned to make fires etc later to cope with colder climes so I guess the first humans were obviously dark skinned. Gondwanaland, Lemuria , the theory is that once upon a time humans evolved and then spread around , and got isolated when the continents broke apart. We have features, skin pigmentation according to where we lived. Pale skin to absorb vitamins from the sun with no need of darker pigmentation , Hooked or long noses. thick lips to let us cool off, . double lids and little eyes like the Eskimos and Northern Europeans to keep out the cold etc. I am amazed at all the insults. I really dont believe humans evolved from TWO apelike ancestors which is a great pity that our nearest mammalian cousins are being slaughtered at such a great rate in Indonesia and Africa. The Elamites /Dravidians may have migrated and left their language and genes too. So much still hidden under the sands of time.

  48. palaniappan.C.R

    ya, Indians so called Aryan and Dravidian are same race genetically but differ linguistically and physically differ since the environment they have been brought up. Historians looking about the archeological evidence to compare the history and linguist looks similarity of language, Generally it was thought that people were once migrated from Africa , now it was proved that it was wrong.literally the age of the human being is about 200000 years apr. Human origin was stated to be that originated from African continent. Geologically all land mas called Gondwanaland which was once united by India ,Africa, Australia ,south and north America at 300 million years ago, gradually separated and existed as present different continents . so common human being evolved from different species of homo erects to modern human beings, now ,modern human races are said to be out of Indian theory is been recognized by and proved by genetic study., which said that European and other central Asian were once migrated from India and settled the Europe and middle east after diminish of ice age. once we have been common homo eructs and split-ed and muted to different races, so immediate forefather for Europeans and few middle easterners and even north African are same common root gent type evolved, In huma migration , man only migrated and had intermarriage between locals then they have adopted language of their mothers or locals. Europe was recently occupied by humans from India since it has no living condition because of ice cover and had more ice cover which was subdued 30000 years ago to 20000 gradually and migrated Indian tribes developed unique physical character than original Indian tribes. Like wise languages also developed from proto Dravidian languages should be as mother of all indo European, indo Iranian, Dravidian and Semitic languages.The most oldest languages are Tamil, Greek, Latin,Sanskrit,mandarin languages ,of which only mandarin languages are different in all style and those people also genetically different from rest of the others. Among Tamil, Greek, Latin, Sanskrit i think Tamil is the oldest ,it is only a language is having more root words found common in other said languages, i can give so many examples , ill – house, the same meaning in v -illa = villa in European languages, maha + illam = mahal in Persian and at the same time HALL (big house ) in English.man+ithan = man in english, manush in saskirt,manam, mind,man all the from same tamil root wood man.
    victory in tamil virtri, win in tamil wintru, cry tamil kari + thal = karithal, kill in tamil koll, war in tamil por, thani is in tamil land, same other northern ie language s called in same meaning ‘than’, example Pakistan, Uzbekistan,
    In tamil patti means group of comprised of well build houses , examples usilampatti, andipatti, same like in northern languages called behumpet,and been again changed to ‘bad’ example Dan-bad, Baghdad .

    water – in tamil wartha + neer = water, neer mostly all languages it is similarly called all around the world. mara = nothing,angry same in all languages mara = angry in hindi,mara = basha Indonesia is also called same meaning ‘angry’. maravan(warrior tribes of Tamil castes) arts called martial art in English. marithar in tamil who was dead same meaning Hindi markaya, again meaning same in english ,’murder , so i concluded that tamil is exisiting oldest languages from proto Dravidian languages class, here Dravidian reffed to mean a group of languages but not genetically tribes, i think genetically no Aryan Dravidian exists i was invented for divide and rule policy, All same tribes once migrated from south India and speed all over the middle east and Europa and they retro back to India with white skin and long physical stature as so called Aryan, Iranian, saka, hush an,

  49. The word or term Dravidian does not refer to Tamils because it was a generic term to whole of southern India given by Mr. Caldwell. Tamils are much older community than the present carbon dating can fathom or measure. The Aryans in India are Persians this fact never featured in the history books in schools in India till today. There is no mention of Persian invasion in the history text books. Why?

  50. ancientmaths

    How could you have allowed this last comment To be published

    Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 20:09:14 +0000 To: paradoxe_hawthorn@hotmail.com

  51. tamillian101

    Yes, i am a tamil. I also have noticed that i look a lot like aboriginals. A lot of people mistake me for aboriginals and i would not deny this as history in language gives conclusive evidence. A lot of people discriminate against aboriginals and i don’t see why this is the case. My father is tamil and i think that he looks aboriginal as well. If any of my tamil brothers and sisters think otherwise, don’t be afraid, we are all aboriginal and tamil and we are the original owners of the land.

  52. i have a tamil friend and he is always so ashamed of his dark skin, but he found solace after associating with a group of aboriginals who have welcolmed him as their own! i think its beautiful that two people can look exactly the same even though they are seperated by miles of water. tamils = aboriginals = dravidians

    • Mani

      I do agree. Actually my grandson is a mix of South Indian race and White race. He has no awareness of color still (at the age of 4). Color is only skin deep. I am glad we are in the 20th / 21st century. In my opinion, the color system as promulgated by the Aryan society is the worst crime of mankind against mankind. I do believe that the Australian Aborigine people could be very closely related to the South Indian people.

  53. Yagendhren Govender

    Susan, where is the evidence of a people in India living before Tamils. I’m going to use the word Tamils as I believe that Tamil is the parent language of all South Indian languages and dialects, which came to be either as a mixture with other languages or a distortion of Tamil. Malayalam for example only recently became recognised as a language prior to which, it was a dialect of Tamil. As with anything, a natural development needs to take place so, instead of a Dravidian people who spoke and wrote different to current day Tamils, I prefer Ancient Tamils who wrote and spoke different to current day Tamils. There is still a struggle to trace back the origins of the Tamil people as there is a struggle to trace back Saivam/Saivaism, the religion that they shared close relation with before any other form of structured belief. The Tamils became great people of the sea. Today, a purer Tamil is spoken among the fisherman clans as they choose to stay closer to the sea, whilst other Tamils choose to stay away from the areas inhabited by the fisherman clans. The idea of the catamaran belongs to the Tamil people; the evidence is in the word itself: cata coming from KaaTTu (Tamil for forest) and maran coming from Maram (Tamil for tree), here referring to the trunk. It is well known the colonisation of much of South East Asia by Iraasaraasa Chohzhan (Raja Raja Sohzhan/Cholan). It isn’t impossible then that Tamils in ancient times, by means of foot and catamaran, traveled to Australia and became known as the aborigines. Remember, sea levels were lower and, if it were during the ice age, they could’ve just walked across, like the Tamils that left India and walked over to the Americas, settling as the Incas. In a theory by David Hatcher Childress, the Tamil people also inhabited Easter Island when Kumari Kandam/Lemuria sank. Similarities that he found in depictions appearing in the Indus Valley and Easter Island, were strikingly similar. There is a Cyril Hromnik who has suggested the presence of Tamils in South Africa far before the British recruited them (or shall I say, us) as slaves. The drawing of a chariot, symbolising Lord Sivan, and a ceremonial cave suggesting that it is an ancient Sivan Temple (possibly 3000 years old), was strongly put forward by Hromnik without proper opposition. This paints a new picture to genetics as the San, he theorises, are half Tamil. Maybe there’s more to that Tamil supremacy than meets the eye however, I’m still to be convinced of Tamil being present globally as it is now, and, whilst there is literal recording of Lemuria, I await archaeological evidence. Then again, we have such high belief in Atlantis, with no archaeological proof. There is reference to a Naavaalum Theevu in the 3rd Century Tamil-Saiva work, Thiruvaasagam, referring to a massive island (Theevu); this was the island that impacted on Asia to form the Himalayas. However, it needs to be asked when was it that collision took place and did present day India break away from Africa or was it part of the sunken Lemuria which did not sink. I am most intrigued by the presence of an Island called ‘Siva’ close to Australia.

    • Mani

      Yogendren Gounder Macchi, It is a fact Raja Raja Chozhan and Rajendra Chozhan colonized South East Asia for some time. This is during recent times. Our literature is full of evidence of sea trade both on the eastern and western parts of South India. Though Roman trade with peninsular India is well documented, the eastern trade at the same times ( 1st, 2nd century AD) is very well passed on to us by our poets. We must be thankful to our fore fathers to have given us an identity.

  54. Lohithaksha

    This coincides with the submerged continent KumaiKandam (Lemuria) which connected South India(TamilNadu), Madagascar and Australia.

  55. The Paleozoic glaciation period of Gondwana saw the Indian sub-continent juxtaposed between South America,Africa and Australia. May be the common ancestors of Tamils and Australian Aborigines lived in those days before the continents drifted to their present positions.In the UK, fossils of earliest known humans are now 1.2 million years old, but were 20,000 year old in the 1970s. If archaeologists unearth older fossils dating to 300 million years, the above hypothesis can be proved.

  56. Mani

    My two cents. I am not an expert. But I do believe that the Australian native people look very similar to South Indian people. I also believe that South Indian people were sea faring and they might have landed in Australia and might have gotten lost (meaning they did not return home). Separately, I also believe that South Indian people had a great civilization until they were confounded by Aryan tribes. The words for the number 9, the number 90 and the number 900 in all the four South Indian languages has a significance. The word “Tomithi” in Telugu, “Thonnooru” in Tamil / Malayalam and similarly in Kannada literally means “Old 10″ or “Old 100″ or “Old 1000″ for 9, 90 and 900 respectively. I recon that the entire south India spoke one language and that they were well connected and well educated. I also recon that their number system underwent a sea change at some point of time and they decided to rationalize their numbering system (probably from Octal to Decimal, very unfortunately an inferior system obviously). The languages split at a latter time than such a reorganization of the numbering system otherwise these languages could not have had the specific “reasoned” names for these numbers so much common. This numbering system might have changed due to foreigners coming with a different system, specifically the Aryans. I also recon that there should have been great warfare between South Indians and Aryans and that the South Indians were sadly defeated and dispersed and became disconnected. I also recon that Cangam Tamil itself is a relatively “recent” development after Aryan way of life got penetrated into the South India all over but resisted the a wholesale arianization of the language. I am happy some elements of “South Indian” culture is still living in the south in all the four states just as it would have been 4000 to 5000 years ago.

  57. alagirisamy

    Alagirisamy,TAMILNADU,South India
    Please read the book” the journey of man : a genetic odessey” written by Spencer wells.And watch the video in youtube “the journey of man:a genetic odessey by Spencer wells.He has proved that the human made journey from Africa to Australia via india (TAMILNADU).A marker called m130 was discovered in Madurai area in Tamilnadu.This marker m 130 is found both Australian aborigins and Tamilnadu people.Spencer wells came to Madurai studied y chromosome study in a village near Madurai with the help of Proffessor Pichappan of Madurai Kamaraj University.Human made journey through coastel line from west to east coast of India.THEY reached Indonesia ,JAVA ,sumatra then to Australia..

  58. Yagendhren Govender

    Hi Susan. There is currently no date given to the Tamil language due to its super antiquity. There will obviously be a civilisation needed to speak a language in order for the language to be therefore, there is currently no concrete evidence to say that Tamils entered India. We can point to a year in time and say that this is when the Aryans came into India, this is when the NIA entered India, this is when the Moghuls entered India but the same cannot be said of the Tamil people. Even the genealogy hypothesis of modern man only originating from Africa is questionable. You mention that Tamils came in from two opposite ends of India (Mesopatamia and Sri Lanka). How is this possible? At one point in time, Sri Lanka was part of India. If they were in Sri Lanka, then they were in India. There is evidence that Tamils were great traders and fisherman which lead to much exploration and navigation. We have to ask how the Maldives arrived at that name which comes from the Tamil words Malai Theevu (Island of Mountains), Sri Lanka was Lanka with the original name being Ilangai (Pillar of Light), all names of places ending in ‘ore’ (eg. Singapore) comes from the Tamil word for village or town (oor). Even Portugal is said to be a distortion of the Tamil word ‘Porutgal’ which means riches or wealth. We have to consider that Dravidians did not move from the middle eastern places mentioned into India but were present there whilst at the same time being present in India. Even if we look at the Kabha in Mecca, if thoroughly investigated, we will find that this was a Tamil-Saiva site of worship with many Tamil-Saiva rituals still practiced by Muslim pilgrims. In the Quran, it mentions that Muhamed vandalising the statues that were there. This statues were moorthies that one would typically find at a Tamil-Saiva temple. Or any traditional Tamil temple for that sake. The Black Stone that’s locked within the cube covered by a black cloth is a natural Sivalingam which invaders could not remove. The pilgrims circumambulating the Khaba has its origins in Tamils circumambulating the temple, it is Tamil tradition to pray 6 times a day (Aarru Kaala Poosai), and to prostrate in the direction of Sidhambaram, the primary Temple of Tamil-Saivites, as the Muslims prostrate in the direction of Mecca. Even the Muslims have a sect that embraces mysticism, as there were Tamil-Saiva Sithar, and also a non-dual philosophy, which is the belief of the original philosophy of Saivaism (Saiva Sithaandham). The idea that the aborigines being Tamils who ventured into Australia and surrounding areas, via sea and the stretch of land running down through Indonesia, is definitely not a stab in the dark. Even by a comparison of appearance between present day Tamil and Aborigines tribes, a striking resemblance can be noted. However, there is mitochondrial proof that connects Tamils and Aborigines. Yes, it is possible that Tamils, some 10 000 years ago, traveled into Australia and surrounding. Afterall, the canoe has its origins in the Tamil ‘Kaattu Maram’ which directly translates into Forest Tree/Trunk. These were dug into and designed to float and were the pioneer vessels used for fishing. The ‘Kaattu Maram’ was later adopted and became known as the Catamaran.

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  60. Hi everyone,
    Forget the west ignoring the origins of Tamil people, even the very same North Indian people whom we south Tamils consider bothers and friends cant bare to accept the truth.

    Many people claim that there was an indigenous people living and Dravidians came from turkey, some shit like that and conquered this place.

    But the truth is according to the alien theory, goes like this,

    The whole earth had its own indigenous people, all over the world, and the last of the indigenous tribe being the Neanderthal man. According to scientist there is a missing link bw Neanderthal and modern Humans. This is where aliens come in. The aliens inhabited the lost city of Alantis and Lemuria ( Kumari Kandam). Lemurian ( Alien race) were advanced in field of nuclear physics , bio technology, anti gravity tech i.e, very advanced in all.

    Lemuria is said to be the garden of eden, but in fact it was a laboratory, and where the first man was created, i.e, created by genetically altering the Neanderthal man. And this is not one man but a whole community.

    And the Lemurians were reptialian beings and they their language was Tamil and hence the first ever language ever taught to man was Tamil.
    ((( lots of people gonna be pissed , like the saying goes TRUTH HURTS))),

    So now the Lemurian people were composed of Tamil people ( first genetically modified human beings) and the Alien Race (Reptilian beings).

    :- Something off topic::: mermaids were from the reptilian race , who were modified to survive the huge flood, that destroyed lemuria, Atlantis 200 years later and many parts of earth.

    Any way , lots happened I don’t want to go into detail, but then the dravidians had already learned the knowledge of the Ancients, and knew of various skill, like nuclear reactors. ( unbelievable I know:- but proof in internet, ::: google the ancient cites were destroyed and the radiation even exists even now in north indian place. (this was before the Aryans were even existing on earth).)))

    I saw this in Ancient Aliens. So whoever want to question can go question the guy who documented Ancient Aliens on the History Channel.

    It is also said that Tamil was the oldest known Language in the world.

    So I am sorry to disappoint may of you But that’s how it all happen.
    According to Ancient Aliens on history channel.

  61. A special message to so called Faking Aryan Supremist HUSAYN,

    Hi bitch, I am born Tamilian, I am Dravidian, I m black and yes im proud of it.
    That’s TAMIL POWER.

    You post some people in doing hardworking akward jobs in tamil nadu, and proclaim that Tamil people are lowest among low, I could do that same for all the states in India . You think you are smart doing this, no it just shows the filth you have in your heart, you sick human being and ofcourse you need help. Don’t worry you can get all the help with rat poison and ofcourse cyanide.
    And welcome, don’t mention it.

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  64. Johnf763

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  65. Indonesia has had Hindu influence for over 2000 years. After Dutch and Portuguese colonial navies cleared pirates from the seas, Macassan fishing boats sailed freely to north Australia for about 300 years , and some inter-married. They left about 300 words in coastal Aboriginal languages.
    Javanese Hindus fled to Bali as Islamic expansion destroyed Dharma kingdoms in Majapahit. A ship arrived in east Australia from Ngareenbeil meaning “Your beloved country-man” in Old Balinese language. They spread out and gave some language to the Aboriginal countries.
    more info : sjswelch@yahoo.com.au
    John

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